celery
Distinguished Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2007
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God does exist, and there is physical proof. It's the human mind, not in its creation, but in its function.
In our world there are more things created from belief than there are physical objects. Humans create with thought by assigning value to nearly everything. Outside of the complete biological basic needs for human survival, everything else is simply a creation of belief.
Let's take money for example, I know you'll say that money used to be based on gold which is physical and therefore real. But again, just because something is physical does not mean it exists. It means that it has mass. In order for something to exist, a human mind must first assign it a value. Our money in present day is imaginary, yet it is traded every day, every hour, every minute, every second, with a firm and unwavering belief that it is real and more importantly, that it carries value.
Society is a thing. Society "exists." Yet, you don't see people asking people to prove that society exists. Again, society is a construct of the human mind, without a value being given to it, it doesn't actually exist. Same thing with nationality. People readily agree that it is real and it exists. Again there is no physical proof to show that it exists other than the value human minds have place on imaginary geographic regions.
Love is a very common pursuit for humankind. Yet, people claim to "feel" love despite it not being a physical object that one can acquire. It is a belief given value by a human mind.
Beauty is accepted as physical appearance, but it's just a concept. What you understand to be beautiful is a construct of the human mind, and in general, beauty is a collective concept that changes over time. What is considered beautiful this decade may not be beautiful next decade, but how can that be if beauty is representative of a physical trait? Beauty is a value.
And so, because the only things that have innate value are basic biological needs, you can see that perception and the ability of humans to assign value to something proves that nearly everything in life, everything you accept to be real, is in fact, a creation of individual and collective minds.
This brings us to God. For as long as we have recorded history, people have claimed that a God has existed. Many have also claimed that they have seen, felt, heard, or in any other way experience God's presence. A church, as a physical structure, does not exist. Only with the belief in God, and the value assigned to it by one or more human minds can that church come into existence. As an atheist you could not have possibly seen a church. Yet, you know, as well as anyone, that you have seen it. And you know why you saw it. You saw it because God exists, and people have assigned God a value within our world. And because God has value, a church was erected as a place to worship God. You did not simply see a random physical structure. You saw a structure with purpose, your mind automatically assigned that structure a value. You first recognized it as a building, which you know to be a hollow structure that people can go inside of. But more importantly, you recognized its meaning and its place within the world.
Because you can see a church. Because you are aware of the value placed in it. Because you readily accept that nearly everything you perceive, experience, and understand, you too cannot deny that when the human mind (as an individual or a whole) assigns a value to something, it becomes real. So, because human minds have given a value to God. God exists.
Before you reply with, "does Harry Potter exist?" You must first assess what it is, that has been given value. There is no belief that Harry Potter, as a person, exists. He has not been assigned a value. There is a belief that a children's fantasy book was book series was written with Harry Potter as the central figure. That is a critical difference that must be understood. It would be easy to say that God is just a figure in a book written a long time ago. However, that would be backwards. God was assigned a value first, the belief in God existed prior to a written or drawn concept.
Even though you might claim to not believe in God, by creating this very thread you have accepted that God is real. If God weren't real, then how could you possibly have assigned a value to the proof of God's nonexistence? It wouldn't have even entered your mind. It couldn't have entered your mind. Right now, things may "exist" that you do not know about, and you could not possibly identify them because they don't exist to you. Go ahead, identify something that you don't know exists. You can't. You can't name it, value it, or post a thread about whether you agree that it does or doesn't exist. But God does exist. Not only to believers, but to you as well. God exists because humanity assigned God a value.
Last pre-emptive rebuttal. I know you will want to claim that you can now just make something up and claim to give it a value. Unfortunately, that is not how the human mind assigns value, and you know it already. To give something value, you must be able to genuinely believe that it exists to give it a value. You can't just say, "I believe in the ooga booga monster!" However, if you truly do believe it exists, then it will exist for you. You will be able to go around talking about it like it is real without a single doubt. People might look at you weird, but that's only because they haven't assigned it a value yet. If they choose to believe in it with you, then the ooga booga monster is real for them as well.
You can't claim that you haven't assigned a value to God, so God isn't real for you. God is real for you, because God obviously has enough value to be worthy of your time, attention, thought, and "real" money.
I do accept paypal, and even if you feel that I've only proven that we believe in many imaginary things that don't exist, you shouldn't have any issue with sending me $50 . . . cause it's imaginary you know. Actually, since it doesn't exist (like God), then you may as well send me the $5000 as it won't matter to you.
In our world there are more things created from belief than there are physical objects. Humans create with thought by assigning value to nearly everything. Outside of the complete biological basic needs for human survival, everything else is simply a creation of belief.
Let's take money for example, I know you'll say that money used to be based on gold which is physical and therefore real. But again, just because something is physical does not mean it exists. It means that it has mass. In order for something to exist, a human mind must first assign it a value. Our money in present day is imaginary, yet it is traded every day, every hour, every minute, every second, with a firm and unwavering belief that it is real and more importantly, that it carries value.
Society is a thing. Society "exists." Yet, you don't see people asking people to prove that society exists. Again, society is a construct of the human mind, without a value being given to it, it doesn't actually exist. Same thing with nationality. People readily agree that it is real and it exists. Again there is no physical proof to show that it exists other than the value human minds have place on imaginary geographic regions.
Love is a very common pursuit for humankind. Yet, people claim to "feel" love despite it not being a physical object that one can acquire. It is a belief given value by a human mind.
Beauty is accepted as physical appearance, but it's just a concept. What you understand to be beautiful is a construct of the human mind, and in general, beauty is a collective concept that changes over time. What is considered beautiful this decade may not be beautiful next decade, but how can that be if beauty is representative of a physical trait? Beauty is a value.
And so, because the only things that have innate value are basic biological needs, you can see that perception and the ability of humans to assign value to something proves that nearly everything in life, everything you accept to be real, is in fact, a creation of individual and collective minds.
This brings us to God. For as long as we have recorded history, people have claimed that a God has existed. Many have also claimed that they have seen, felt, heard, or in any other way experience God's presence. A church, as a physical structure, does not exist. Only with the belief in God, and the value assigned to it by one or more human minds can that church come into existence. As an atheist you could not have possibly seen a church. Yet, you know, as well as anyone, that you have seen it. And you know why you saw it. You saw it because God exists, and people have assigned God a value within our world. And because God has value, a church was erected as a place to worship God. You did not simply see a random physical structure. You saw a structure with purpose, your mind automatically assigned that structure a value. You first recognized it as a building, which you know to be a hollow structure that people can go inside of. But more importantly, you recognized its meaning and its place within the world.
Because you can see a church. Because you are aware of the value placed in it. Because you readily accept that nearly everything you perceive, experience, and understand, you too cannot deny that when the human mind (as an individual or a whole) assigns a value to something, it becomes real. So, because human minds have given a value to God. God exists.
Before you reply with, "does Harry Potter exist?" You must first assess what it is, that has been given value. There is no belief that Harry Potter, as a person, exists. He has not been assigned a value. There is a belief that a children's fantasy book was book series was written with Harry Potter as the central figure. That is a critical difference that must be understood. It would be easy to say that God is just a figure in a book written a long time ago. However, that would be backwards. God was assigned a value first, the belief in God existed prior to a written or drawn concept.
Even though you might claim to not believe in God, by creating this very thread you have accepted that God is real. If God weren't real, then how could you possibly have assigned a value to the proof of God's nonexistence? It wouldn't have even entered your mind. It couldn't have entered your mind. Right now, things may "exist" that you do not know about, and you could not possibly identify them because they don't exist to you. Go ahead, identify something that you don't know exists. You can't. You can't name it, value it, or post a thread about whether you agree that it does or doesn't exist. But God does exist. Not only to believers, but to you as well. God exists because humanity assigned God a value.
Last pre-emptive rebuttal. I know you will want to claim that you can now just make something up and claim to give it a value. Unfortunately, that is not how the human mind assigns value, and you know it already. To give something value, you must be able to genuinely believe that it exists to give it a value. You can't just say, "I believe in the ooga booga monster!" However, if you truly do believe it exists, then it will exist for you. You will be able to go around talking about it like it is real without a single doubt. People might look at you weird, but that's only because they haven't assigned it a value yet. If they choose to believe in it with you, then the ooga booga monster is real for them as well.
You can't claim that you haven't assigned a value to God, so God isn't real for you. God is real for you, because God obviously has enough value to be worthy of your time, attention, thought, and "real" money.
I do accept paypal, and even if you feel that I've only proven that we believe in many imaginary things that don't exist, you shouldn't have any issue with sending me $50 . . . cause it's imaginary you know. Actually, since it doesn't exist (like God), then you may as well send me the $5000 as it won't matter to you.
